GovWire

Attendees:

• Kirsty McNeill, Parliamentary Under Secretary of State for the Scotland Office (PuSoSS)
• Andrew Western, Parliamentary-Under Secretary of State (Minister for Transformation) - Department for Work and Pensions (MfT)
• Shirley-Anne Somerville, Cabinet Secretary for Social Justice (CSSJ).

Item 1: welcome and introductions

PuSoSS welcomed ministers to the first meeting of the Joint Ministerial Working Group on Welfare (JMWGW) under this new government, and said she was looking forward to this meeting and others to come. PuSoSS outlined her role as chair of the meeting, PuSoSS thanked officials for their work and praised the close working relationships between officials in the different departments and across both Governments.

MfT introduced himself as the DWP Minister with responsibility for relations with the Devolved Governments , as well as for Fraud, Error and Debt.

CSSJ introduced herself as Cabinet Secretary with responsibilities for social security and child poverty and congratulated both UKG ministers on their new roles. She expressed how social security had been a very successful part of devolution and how these meetings have worked well for the ministers involved as a touch point.

Item 2: Social Security Scotland - delivery of benefits

2.1 Current priorities

Pension Age Disability Payment (PADP)

CSSJ expressed that there has been a lot of work on a number of areas and thanked officials for their work. On PADP (replacing Attendance Allowance) the CSSJ recognised the efforts made by officials after the General Election so that the Scotland Act section 104 Order accommodating the new benefit in the reserved system was passed on time.

Pension Age Winter Heating Payment (PAWHP)

The CSSJ said that there had clearly been disagreement between the two Governments on the UK Governments decision to means-test the Winter Fuel Payment in England and Wales, but given the decision made the Scottish Government has moved forward with matching provision in Scotland through the PAWHP. She stated the Scottish and UK Governments will continue to have conversations on this policy and that they are working closely so that those entitled to this benefit this winter can receive it. CSSJ expressed a wish to come back to this item after this year.

Carer Support Payment (CSP)

CSSJ said that CSP had been one of the most complex devolved benefits to date given the nature of its interaction with the reserved benefit system and other devolved benefits. She thanked officials for the positive joint working to ensure delivery had been achieved on time.

CSSJ said that she was keen to secure agreement on the timetable for the Scotland Act Orders required to accompany the CSP enhancements being made by the Scottish Government She noted that conversations about the proposals had been going on for around two years and it was important that conclusions are reached quickly given the expectations of carers that the changes would be delivered shortly after the completion of Carers Allowance case transfer.

MfT acknowledged that the work required to support these changes is ongoing on both sides and that the UK Government will continue to liaise closely with the Scottish Government, but he was not at this point in a position to guarantee a date for delivery of the UK legislation necessary to accommodate the further CSP changes in the reserved benefit system.

Case Transfer

MfT expressed that this is continuing successfully and there is a need to make sure close collaboration continues to make it work. Transfer of the Personal Independence Payment caseload was almost complete, transfer of the Carers Allowance caseload was well underway, and everything was on track to begin the Attendance Allowance caseload transfer next year. He welcomed the very good working relations between DWP and the Scottish Government on this issue.

CSSJ agreed with these remarks and referred to case transfer as an unsung success of the devolution of social security. CSSJ thanked officials for their work on this highly complex issue.

2.2 future delivery, planning and legislation for remaining devolved benefits

Scottish Adult Disability Living Allowance

CSSJ reported that all is moving smoothly. Regulations are going well, and while the number of people affected is small, it is an important matter for those directly affected. PuSoSS noted that all agreed it was progressing well.

Employment Injury Assistance / Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit

CSSJ said that a letter would soon be sent to DWP Ministers seeking agreement in principle to extend the duration of the agency agreement for the administration of Industrial Injuries Benefits by DWP on behalf of the Scottish Ministers. CSSJ said that the substantial Scottish Government consultation on this issue supported a root and branch reform and the introduction of a completely new benefit, rather than the approach used for carers and additional-needs disability benefits of introducing a new but initially similar benefit, transferring existing cases to it, and then effecting more significant change across the combined new and transferred caseload. This raised the question of whether existing Industrial Injuries cases should be transferred to Social Security Scotland.

MfT responded that he would wait for the letter, and envisaged that this could constitute a more substantial agenda item for the next JMWGW.

Item 3: AOB

CSSJ raised two points. The first was increasing relevant Universal Credit awards in Scotland at source to reverse the removal of the spare room subsidy, referred to by Scottish Government Ministers as the bedroom tax. CSSJ had repeatedly requested a firm timescale for this change, which was temporarily being addressed through devolved discretionary housing payments. Secondly, CSSJ expressed her disappointment that there would be no increase in the Local Housing Allowance in 2025/26, and particularly her concern at the impact this could have on homelessness.

MfT thanked CSSJ for these points and said he would take them away for consideration.

Neither PuSoSS nor MfT had any points to raise as AOB.

Conclusion

PuSoSS thanked MfT, CSSJ and their teams, as well as her own, for their time, and expressed her delight in being part of this joint working group.